To ask the Minister of Education to outline any engagement he has had with children and young people in relation to his proposals for the future of CCEA qualifications.

Mr Givan

My proposals reflect a clear ambition to ensure that CCEA GCSEs, AS levels and A levels remain relevant nationally and internationally. While the main consultation is an opportunity for students to inform the proposals, my officials have also been engaging directly with students and young people in a range of settings over the course of the consultation. That engagement has included holding focus group sessions with school students and speaking directly with young people in years 11 to 14. Officials have also met representatives of the Secondary Students' Union of Northern Ireland (SSUNI) and, in collaboration with the EA, have designed a children and young people's version of the consultation questionnaire. That has been shared with youth organisations in order to allow young people the opportunity to share their views.

Mr Givan

It is a really important question. That is why we are asking for feedback, particularly from pupils. The engagement that we have already had indicates that there is high pressure when you go into year 11, because, where you are carrying out the modular approach in some subjects, you are formally tested in year 11. The more linear approach is year 12. The evidence shows that academic results are better for those who follow the linear approach rather than the modular approach. We need to look at what the evidence shows about which approach to follow for the best educational outcomes. The high levels of testing that our young people face are also well documented, and many Members have rightly talked about that. There is a high level of testing in lower sixth. I declare an interest, because I have one daughter who has gone through her AS levels — she does not necessarily agree with the proposal, I have to say — and I have another one who has to do them. I know the pressure that it puts on them. Thousands of young people will repeat the exams that they have just sat in lower sixth in order to try to improve their result in upper sixth. Quite a number of weeks of valuable teaching time is lost. Young people can be off school for a number of weeks to carry out revision and sit mocks, and then they are off for a number of weeks to sit the exams. Some young people in lower sixth may not be in school learning for up to seven or eight weeks. There is a balance to be found between how much learning time there is and how much focus there is on testing and qualifications. I am open to hearing people's views on that.

Mr O'Toole

Minister, I hope that you will listen to the responses to the consultation that you are undertaking — you are already saying that, in your own house, there has been some robust feedback — because the real concern is that pursuing a clear, possibly ideological position will create more high-stakes pressure, particularly for vulnerable kids and, indeed, kids from working-class backgrounds. It is also the case that removing the AS level would make it even harder for Northern pupils to get the requisite points to get into Southern universities. Will you bear both those points in mind when coming to a conclusion?

Mr Givan

Yes. The Member mentioned the points system. I have concern that access to universities in the Republic of Ireland is very difficult for young people in Northern Ireland. There are challenges. Work needs to be carried out at the higher education level to remove those barriers. Many young people would be willing and want to study in the Republic of Ireland, but the barriers to access are challenging. I have said that the view that is emerging from the evidence base is that that approach would be a better one to follow. However, I also hear the conflicting messages that come particularly from young people around the issue. We just need to hear that feedback properly and carefully consider all the responses that we get from the consultation. I encourage teachers and pupils to very much engage in the process. It is a consultation for a reason: it will inform the decision-making process that will then flow after that. I have not reached a firm view at this stage.

Mr Brett

Can the Minister say when a decision is likely to be taken, bearing in mind that he will take into consideration all the evidence that is produced before making a final decision?

Mr Givan

The consultation is open until 13 November. When it closes, there will be a period of analysis that officials will carry out. We will draw on that analysis and other evidence. I then intend to confirm my policy framework intentions early in 2026. Once that process has concluded and I have taken decisions in respect of it, CCEA Regulation would be required to prepare a regulatory framework from which CCEA, the awarding organisation, would undertake a full revision of its qualifications. Previously, that process has taken a minimum of two years prior to the roll-out of new specifications. Again, I will just emphasise that I have not made decisions in respect of those matters.

Mr McMurray

As the father of a red-headed daughter as well, I make no comment on fathers disagreeing with daughters. On a serious point, how will young people feed into the consultation on the change? Will the Minister listen to the young people who feed in, especially if they show a bit of, let us say, disagreement with the Minister in that regard?

Mr Givan

I did not realise that we had that in common. There is stakeholder engagement for young people to feed in their views. The consultation is open to everybody to do that, and of course that will all be taken into account and considered. This is not the first time that I have had some disagreement in my house. The mobile phone policy was another one on which I had interesting debates in my house. By way of example, I visited St Ronan's College in Lurgan, one of our largest schools in Northern Ireland, which is participating in the mobile phone pilot scheme. Some of the pupils who had had apprehension and did not agree with the scheme are now very much advocates for it. I appreciate that sometimes people cannot see what benefit the change will deliver until they have experienced that change. That certainly has been the experience of those pupils at St Ronan's in respect of the mobile phone pilot scheme that is being rolled out there. Therefore, that will all be taken into account, where young people can feed into it. However, I appreciate that, until you feel and see that change and the outworkings of it, there will be an apprehension about what it means.